 |  | | | |  | |  |  | Re: Blood tests |  | |  |  | |
 Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:46 pm |
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| Wisey |
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| Joined: 19 May 2009 |
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| Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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| nicolas wrote: |
| Wisey wrote: |
| But nobody wants to ask any questions about a guy who rode for doping teams since he first turned pro |
It's not true. Greg LeMond did ask the question in french newspaper "Le Monde". And look what good it did to him... |
Yes, you are correct. If we say nothing, are we being deliberatly ignorant? If we say something, do we end up labelled as troublemakers as Greg and Paul Kimmage have?
More power to you Greg!  |
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_________________
Kind Regards,
Wisey
Delta Dreamin' |
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:57 am |
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| sandranian |
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| Joined: 27 Feb 2006 |
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| Location: Southern California |
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| I can tell you that no one benefitted from the Landis affair. Landis, the labs, USADA, the witnesses (including Lemond)...all of them suffered personally and/or publicly. I think the sport lost as well. Whether you believe Landis or USADA, the affair dragged everyone into the gutter and essentially left every participant for dead. |
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:09 am |
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| nicolas |
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| Joined: 13 Mar 2006 |
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| Location: Paris, France |
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| | | | | | | | | French law | | | | | |
| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:15 am |
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| verktyg |
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| Joined: 14 Jan 2007 |
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| Location: SF Bay Area |
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The Napoleonic Code: Guilty until proven innocent!
To answer Nicolas' question "...and being followed by many top-notch doctors probably knew about all this, don't you think ?"
I think that most people view medical doctors as being omnipotent.
Most medical doctors in the US receive only one or two classes in pharmacology. In my experience most US doctors know very little about drugs of any kind.
A lot of what they learn comes from the drug sales people who work for various pharmaceutical companies. They call on all the MDs in their territory on a regular basis.
These salespeople rarely have any kind of technical training other than what their companies have taught them to say about their products. They frequently have college degrees in History or Literature. Pharmaceutical companies don't want sales people trained in scientific methodology!
US doctors tend to be either general practitioners or highly focused specialists. There are so many facets of modern medicine that it's difficult to know much beyond your field of interest or expertise.
Last year I had a severe reaction caused by an interaction between a medication that I normally take and an antibiotic I was prescribed for a respiratory infection. None of the doctors or pharmacists that I spoke with about the problem were aware of the potential for interaction between these two drugs.
I went on the internet and the first search I did turned up pages of warnings about serious side effects from taking these 2 medications together. There are at least 3 good websites that you can check for possible drug interactions and side effects that you aren't told about!
The point I'm making is that there are very few experts that understand many of the possible effects and interactions between different drugs.
Add to that, if you have sloppy handling of blood samples as has frequently happened in sports related testing, can you trust any of the results?
I'm suggesting much more stringent controls for handling the drug testing samples at sporting events. I think that the blood passport program was a good start but needs improvement. When in doubt, retest, retest, retest!
It's not just about the glory of winning a contest but the person's reputation that's at stake.
Monsieur Chas. avocat français |
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:26 am |
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| sandranian |
| Site Admin |
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| Location: Southern California |
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Chas....
"If the gloves don't fit, you must acquit!" Ahh, the beauty of the American justice system!
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:39 am |
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| nicolas |
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| Joined: 13 Mar 2006 |
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| Location: Paris, France |
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I have been, am, and forever will be your biggest fan, Chas, you know that.
As previously, you bring very good points but are you sure that all of Floyd Landis's medical advice was provided by US doctors ? I mean, the guy lived & trained in Europe most of the time...And I'm sure that his hip condition was watched closely by the (swiss) team Phonak.
I agree that FL makes a perfect potential criminal (ex Armstrong team mate, etc...) and it contributed to having him convicted (in the popular sense of the word) quickly, but...the way he & his staff handled the crisis was, at best, questionable (invoking multiple causes, pressurising a witness...).
Again. A sad thing. All the way  |
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| | | | | | | | | LADA Incompetence | | | | | |
| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:49 am |
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| verktyg |
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| Joined: 14 Jan 2007 |
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How can you tell it's spring time in Idaho? Mark Fuhrman is planting gloves!
I watched as LADA Gil Garcetti announced the proceedings on TV. It looked like this was going to be his spring board to the CA governorship or even the presidency. Instead, the pool was empty!
How many high profile cases did they blow during his tenure? Not guilty is not the same as innocent and the train wreck Marcia Clark didn't help prove their case either!
Let's get back OT:
No one bit on your original post, no one commented on this great picture!
Chas. |
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:25 am |
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| verktyg |
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| Joined: 14 Jan 2007 |
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| Location: SF Bay Area |
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| nicolas wrote: |
| I have been, am, and forever will be your biggest fan, Chas, you know that. |
Merci, je suis embarrasse
| nicolas wrote: |
| As previously, you bring very good points but are you sure that all of Floyd Landis's medical advice was provided by US doctors ? I mean, the guy lived & trained in Europe most of the time...And I'm sure that his hip condition was watched closely by the (swiss) team Phonak. |
Just because they make great watches doesn't make the Swiss entirely ethical or omnipotent! They survived hundreds of years of European wars without getting directly involved. It takes cunning to do that and make money on the situation too!
I have no experience with Swiss medicine but a friend of mine manufactured orthopedic implants for a Swiss medical company for a number of years. The parts were sent to Switzerland for final inspection.
He was surprised to see the pieces that he manufactured here in Northern California when they came back laser etched "Made in Switzerland". Apparently, domestic content means anything that passes through their borders (where is Swiss chocolate really made?).
Think "Swiss bank accounts" too...
The Swiss are not above shady deals! 
| nicolas wrote: |
I agree that FL makes a perfect potential criminal (ex Armstrong team mate, etc...) and it contributed to having him convicted (in the popular sense of the word) quickly, but...the way he & his staff handled the crisis was, at best, questionable (invoking multiple causes, pressurising a witness...).
Again. A sad thing. All the way |
I suspect that FL's first response may have been a flippant remark to brush off the accusations, possibly because of everything that had been said post race about LA in the past.
Warning! Nasty editorial:
Even if he were completely doped up, I don't know how he was able to ride much less compete in the TdF with AVN. Getting beat 7 times by an American with only one ball and then by a cripple may be more than some people can handle!
Chas. MD and JD extraordinaire in the court of marsupial justice |
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:35 pm |
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| sandranian |
| Site Admin |
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| Joined: 27 Feb 2006 |
| Posts: 2701 |
| Location: Southern California |
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| verktyg wrote: |
| Getting beat 7 times by an American with only one ball and then by a cripple may be more than some people can handle! |
Hilarious. By the way. Rode my 1987 Gitane on the group ride this morning. What fun. |
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