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Technical questions... 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:43 am Reply with quote
mikkla
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 87
Location: The Netherlands
Sorry if this information is here around the forum, but if it is I can't find it Embarassed

Anyways, is it possible to change the entire drive chain, for modern once.
Since English is not my native tounge I am having trouble explaning it to you all.

What I want is to change the derailleur, chain and all the gears and everything to modern once.
Is this possible with a bike this old?
Special things to pay attention/be aware of?
Any suggestion in materials for a 68-72 tandem?
Will Shimano fit and all that sort things

I am complete newbee as it comes to bikes....
I am technical enough to do al the works myself and I ahve the tools for it, I just haven't done it before.
I have to see how the material look first and then decide if I still want it, but thats for later concern.

Hope any of you can help me out!
Many thanks in advance!

Greetings
Michael
Netherlands
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:05 am Reply with quote
sandranian
Site Admin
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 2701
Location: Southern California
No problem!

If I understand correctly, you want to put a modern drive-train onto a bike that dates from circa 1970?

You will experience some problems. The first will be obtaining bottom brackets that are French threaded. It can be done though, and there are several websites that sell them. It will, however, limit your choice of cranksets.

The second problem that you will encounter is the rear dropout spread. You will have to have them bent outwards to accomodate the increased hub size of the modern rear wheel. This should be professionally done to get it right. You may experience alignment issues as well.

I am sure that many more people will comment with more technical information. If not, just ask, and you will receive polite answers! Your English is MUCH better than my Dutch! Wink

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:53 am Reply with quote
mikkla
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 87
Location: The Netherlands
High!

Thanks for the reply Stephan,

Yeppers, you understood correctley!
The reason I'm thinking of changing it is I want the bike to be as comfortable as can be.
So I thought changing the drive train would give the desired effect.
As long as the comfort thingy does't get effected I have no problem with limited choices.
Not looking for a high end racing machine, if even possible Laughing


I have contacted some dealers here for a new rear wheel, that is pretty impossible to find here.
It has to be 26" 1 3/8", with drum brake and 5 gears freewheel.
Front wheel is no problem, you can pick those up for under 30$.

The reason I'm looking for new wheels is that the old ones are full with rust that hardley comes of.
And its been there to long that the chrome is in bad shape.
So I thought that bying new once would be the easiest way.
But now I see your comment about the dropout spread.
That is something that I feel you shouldn't mess with.

Other idea would then be, only changing the rim using the old hub.
I can however get a new rim in the proper size, but then I have to get it spoked (not sure if that is a word Wink ).
Anyways the rim need new spokes, and I don't think I can do that myself...
Next idea is to contact a bikeshop and see what they can do.

Full of ideas here as you can see!! Laughing

I can change the 5 gears without problems?
Or has that a story to it as well?
Probably hub size problems right? lol
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:19 am Reply with quote
sandranian
Site Admin
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 2701
Location: Southern California
I wouldn't update that. You are talking about your old Tandem, right? I would not change to "modern" equipment. It won't make it any more "comfortable" to ride.

Regarding the wheel, it will be difficult to find a good condition old one. But I would either wait to do that until you find just the right one, or, as you said, take it apart, clean it up, and have it rebuilt. It will cost you more to do that then the entire bike cost! Wheels can be expensive.... The chrome can always be replaced, but that too is expensive.

But I definitely wouldn't change it to modern gear....

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:23 am Reply with quote
mikkla
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 87
Location: The Netherlands
LOL, well the bike cost me 35, so basiccly everything I do about will cost more then the bike haha.
Indeed its that old tandem I am rebuilding.

Oke thanks for your answer, then I will just clean the whole thing up, put some new cables on it, give it some grease and adjust it.
Nothing more to do Laughing
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:25 am Reply with quote
mikkla
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 87
Location: The Netherlands
High!!

This weekend I have had contact with my local bike dealer, very small old town dealer.
Very nice guy with a lot of feeling for oldtimers.

I have made a super deal with him, he will rebuild my two wheels using the old hubs for a very reasonable price.
So there for I took the wheels apart and will clean and polish the hubs tonight.

Here the pics of the wheels been taken apart!





Can't wait to see the result.
I will try to bring them there this week and hopefully they will be ready very soon.
I will post a pic when they are back and look like brand new!!
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Problem... 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:29 am Reply with quote
verktyg
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 2813
Location: SF Bay Area
Ah, you have a problem. You didn't remove the freewheel before cutting the spokes and now you may not be able to get it off of the hub! Embarassed

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Chas.
SF Bay Area, CA USA
==============
1984 Criterium
1969 TdF
1971 TdF
1974 TdF
1984 TdF x 2 Bikes
1970 SC
1971 SC
1972 SC
1984 SC
1984 Team Pro
1985 Professional
1990s Team Replica
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:27 am Reply with quote
mikkla
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 87
Location: The Netherlands
mm oke then.
Thats what you get when you start in oldtimerbikes and don't know s@%t, lol.

I will try to remove it tonight, and will see how it goes.
I ahve never done it before and have no clue on how to..
I can always leave it up to the bikeshop guy, but then again it might raise the price or he can damage it making it useless.

Anyway, wish me luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:09 am Reply with quote
trailrunner
Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 20
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Ouch. Might try a band wrench around the hub. You don't want to scarf it up, but as Chas says, it has to come off. Good luck!

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Ft Worth, TX
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Proper Tools 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:19 pm Reply with quote
verktyg
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 2813
Location: SF Bay Area
First off, you need the proper freewheel removal tool. There were dozens of styles so you may have difficulty finding the correct one.

Theoretically someone could remove all of the freewheel cogs while it's still on the hub (depending on the brand). Some cogs come off of the outside of the freewheel, and on some freewheels like Atom and Regina the 2 largest cogs come off of the rear of the freewheel

That would provide enough room to install new spokes and build up the wheel. Once done you would have enough leverage to remove the remnants of the old freewheel.

I strongly suggest that you do some extensive research on bike mechanics before you proceed any further. Many of the components on your bike have been obsolete for over 25 years and if you damage one of them, you might have a hard time finding a replacement!

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Chas.
SF Bay Area, CA USA
==============
1984 Criterium
1969 TdF
1971 TdF
1974 TdF
1984 TdF x 2 Bikes
1970 SC
1971 SC
1972 SC
1984 SC
1984 Team Pro
1985 Professional
1990s Team Replica
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:35 pm Reply with quote
vanhelmont
Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 242
Location: Florida
You could make an old Flemish weapon called the "goedendag." If you use a piece of wood a few cm thick, a little wider than your hub, and maybe 50 cm long. At one end you can draw a circle the size of the circle of spoke holes on the other side of the hub. Drill a hole in the middle of the circle so the axle can go in, and the hub is close to the wood. Get nails that will fit in the spoke holes. Nail them into the circle. Then the axle should go through the hole in the wood, and the nails should go into the spoke holes. Then you can hold the end of the wood while you turn the freewheel tool. No guarantees, this advice is worth as much as it cost.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:47 pm Reply with quote
mikkla
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 87
Location: The Netherlands
Thank you all for the tips.
Tonight I made a first attempt and looked into it with a few colleagues.
First we needed to figure out how it was essambled in the first place.
Soon we all agreed that the cogs come of in one piece at one side.
On the other side is the drum brake so it is impossible they come of on that side
We are pretty sure we need a tool like this :



Indeed there are many of those tools around, from what I have seen in a few minutes google
.
Luckely I can hold the hub with a vice with special aluminium inserts.
I can hold it with enough force to use any tool I want without the hub slipping or damaging it.
So I was pretty pleased about that Cool

I did try it carefully for a few minutes with a self created tool.
But that didnt work as good as I hoped.
So I stopped before I damaged anything
I didn't have much time left so I stopped trying.

Next thing is to contact a few bikedealers to get some advise or see if they have the tool.
For the time being it is soaked in WD40, maybe it will come of easier.

I will keep you updated on the progress
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Google is your friend... 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:30 am Reply with quote
verktyg
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 2813
Location: SF Bay Area
In a previous message I suggested that you do a little research on bicycle mechanics to get a better understanding how the parts work.

Google is your friend...

Google search - Bicycle Freewheel

First thing that comes up: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/freewheels.html

The reason that you need to remove the freewheel before cutting the spokes is that the cogs are larger than the flange of the hub where the spokes go through. This means that you cannot properly install new spokes on that side of the hub!

Removing a freewheel without a rim attached can sometimes be nearly impossible!

Post a close up picture of the freewheel.

I can probably identify it and tell you if the cogs come off the outside of the freewheel body. If so, you may be lucky and may be able to remove the cogs so the wheel can be rebuilt with the freewheel body still attached to the hub.

_________________
Chas.
SF Bay Area, CA USA
==============
1984 Criterium
1969 TdF
1971 TdF
1974 TdF
1984 TdF x 2 Bikes
1970 SC
1971 SC
1972 SC
1984 SC
1984 Team Pro
1985 Professional
1990s Team Replica
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:25 am Reply with quote
verktyg
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 2813
Location: SF Bay Area
mikkla wrote:

We are pretty sure we need a tool like this :




That's a removal tool for a cassette not a freewheel. The splines are not long enough to work well and may strip out.

The Atom rear hub is hollow and can be easily distorted clamping it in a vise. The internal brake would never work smoothly after that.

Also WD40 is useless for removing freewheels.

_________________
Chas.
SF Bay Area, CA USA
==============
1984 Criterium
1969 TdF
1971 TdF
1974 TdF
1984 TdF x 2 Bikes
1970 SC
1971 SC
1972 SC
1984 SC
1984 Team Pro
1985 Professional
1990s Team Replica
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:49 am Reply with quote
Wisey
Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 631
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Now give us the good news Chas....... Wink

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Kind Regards,
Wisey

Delta Dreamin'
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Technical questions... 
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