gitaneusa.com Forum Index » Vintage Gitane » What cranks?    View previous topic :: View next topic  What cranks?   Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:49 am Muzz Joined: 26 Jul 2011 Posts: 3 I have an entry level deluxe and need to find out what cranks to buy. The sugino maxis on it are stuffed. What brands or size will fit it? Do I need to change the bottom bracket? ideas? Thanks. Can I take by lack of replies that I need to add pictures? I'm really not sure what to do.   Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:04 am auchencrow Joined: 09 Oct 2011 Posts: 53 Location: Detroit A good resource for selecting cranks is Velobase - but of course you will be limited in what you can use by availability (i.e., e-Bay). Your crank will dictate the bb length: If you choose another Japanese crank (and are lucky) it will work with your bb. However- even another Sugino Maxy may have more/less wear in the square taper so that it may affect chain line. If you select an ISO taper (non-JIS taper Japanese) crank, it will require an ISO bb spindle, or the ISO crank will sit too far outboard on the JIS taper spindle. Velobase can provide some guidance -- many of the cranks listed show the nominal bb length, but again this can vary a little bit based on condition. http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=B255450C-F4D9-4854-963E-9D4B5AAC572C&Enum=115&AbsPos=4 If you must change cranks, my advice is just to source the crank you like and then deal with the potential aggravation of sourcing a bb spindle of the appropriate length. As a last resort you can just buy a new cartridge bb to fit, but these are more expensive and far less durable than cup-and-ball BB's, and can get even more expensive if your threads are French/Italian. _________________ Auchen   Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:37 am verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area auchencrow wrote: If you select an ISO taper (non-JIS taper Japanese) crank, it will require an ISO bb spindle, or the ISO crank will sit too far outboard on the JIS taper spindle. BULL PUCKY! More bike shop myth! ISO, JIS and so on only apply to new or almost new cranks. Once the alloy arms have been mounted all of that crap goes out the window! For years Phil Wood made only 1 style of spindle taper to fit all cranks. Sheldon Brown (RIP) had this to say: "Theoretically, ISO cranks should only be used on ISO spindles, and J.I.S. cranks only on J.I.S. spindles. In practice, you can very often get away with mixing these sizes, as long as you select a spindle length that gives the desired chainline. Taper matching was fairly important back in the day of loose-ball cup-and-cone bottom brackets, because these required regular maintenance/overhauls, and this required removal of the cranks. Every time you remove and re-install a square taper crank, the hole in the crank is liable to get very slightly larger. This was particularly an issue when using J.I.S. cranks on ISO spindles, because over time, as the crank went on farther and farther, you could run out of taper, and the square end of the spindle would become flush with the surface the crank fixing bolt/washer pushed against. At that point, further tightening of the bolt won't make the crank any tighter, since the bolt is bumping onto the end of the spindle. I generally avoid mixing sizes on customers' bikes, but I have a lot of experience mixing ISO/J.I.S. in both directions on my own personal bikes, and it as never given me a lick of trouble." I did some experiments last year trying to find a BB spindle for my late 60s Interclub that I was building up as a single speed bike (not a fixie). What I found was that there were so many variations in dimensions even in same brand, same model spindles that all of the JIS/ISO stuff was meaningless. Check out these pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/28267220@N05/sets/72157627678462359/ I ended up using a JIS Shimano spindle with ISO Stronglight crank arms. If the OP's Sugino Maxi bottom bracket is OK then he can probably find replacement cranks on eBay. Chas. Keeper of the truth, breaker of hearts! _________________ Chas. SF Bay Area, CA USA ============== 1984 Criterium 1969 TdF 1971 TdF 1974 TdF 1984 TdF x 2 Bikes 1970 SC 1971 SC 1972 SC 1984 SC 1984 Team Pro 1985 Professional 1990s Team Replica Re: What cranks?   Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:27 pm scozim Joined: 26 Sep 2008 Posts: 629 Location: Ellensburg, WA Muzz wrote: I have an entry level deluxe and need to find out what cranks to buy. The sugino maxis on it are stuffed. What brands or size will fit it? Do I need to change the bottom bracket? ideas? Thanks. Can I take by lack of replies that I need to add pictures? I'm really not sure what to do. Wouldn't hurt to post a couple of photos of the chainring condition. _________________ 1984 Gitane Sprint 1984 Gitane Tour de France mid-1970's Gitane Olympic Plus many more http://eburgcycling.blogspot.com   Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:22 pm auchencrow Joined: 09 Oct 2011 Posts: 53 Location: Detroit verktyg wrote: ....Once the alloy arms have been mounted all of that crap goes out the window! .... ....What I found was that there were so many variations in dimensions even in same brand, same model spindles that all of the JIS/ISO stuff was meaningless.... Chas. Keeper of the truth, breaker of hearts! ^ I really can't argue with any of this Chas. In my much more limited experience installing cranks, I find that everything is more crap-shoot than science. And of course I agree with Sheldon that you can mix JIS-ISO. I would even submit that a JIS spindle is probably a better match for a worn ISO crank even than an ISO spindle, since you don't want to sit too far inboard (for the reasons you cite) nor have the inner chain ring chafe the chain-stay, or have the FD run out of inboard travel. I guess my advice to the OP though remains the same: Buy the crank you want, and then just deal with the spindle length issues, given that things are so darn approximate. _________________ Auchen Speculations   Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:08 pm verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area Without at least a picture of the OPs bike, were just speculating. He mentioned the the bike is a Deluxe which to me suggests that it's a Gran Sport DeLuxe. Gran Sports were entry level bikes made from the late 60s until probably 1976. They came with steel cottered cranks. Someone long ago may have replaced the steel crank with a cotterless Sugino Maxi crank. The Maxi cranks had cheap case hardened spindles and cups that quickly wore through the .005" to .050" hard surfaces and started wearing into the softer steel below. If the bike is indeed a Gran Sport then it has a metric (French) threaded bottom bracket. His least expensive repair/replacement would be to find a complete Sugino Maxi crankset with a metric bottom bracket. Everything beyond that is going to start up costing lots of time and $$$ I had several Gran Sport frames that I built up back in the 70s for around town beater/trainer bikes. One had a forged Sugino Mighty Compe (Campy knock off) crankset. The other had a Stronglight 93 crankset. Complete Stronglight 93 cranksets with the correct 68mm wide BB spindle and cups can be picked up on eBay for ~$150+. That would be the simplest upgrade but... You start approaching the "silk stockings on a rooster" situation where the cranks are worth more than the complete bike. Before going that route, if the bike has steel rims then a set of aluminum alloy rims would give a lot more bang for the buck. So again, without seeing pictures, were are all speculating... _________________ Chas. SF Bay Area, CA USA ============== 1984 Criterium 1969 TdF 1971 TdF 1974 TdF 1984 TdF x 2 Bikes 1970 SC 1971 SC 1972 SC 1984 SC 1984 Team Pro 1985 Professional 1990s Team Replica   Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:52 am Christophe Joined: 06 Nov 2010 Posts: 29 Location: France Hi Chas! I replaced my cottered crank with a period correct sugino super maxy on my 76 ? interclub. When comparing both spindles, the sugino spindle seemed of way better quality than the former cottered spindle. So, i'm a bit surprised that you said they wore quickly.... I haven't put a thousand miles on it yet, though. Are brand new spindles of a better quality ? I 'm seriously tented by the Velo Orange french-threaded cartridge BB as a solution to these BB roblems. Muzz, by the way, the thing I like with the Sugino Maxy and superMaxy is that at least some of them ( I own two ) are 110 BCD. It means you can easely find replacement rings, and you can go as low as 33 teeth in front.... This might really help depending on where you ride. I used a 34 specialités TA front ring for a while , and whereas they've been designed for 9 and 10 speed chains, I found it worked quite well with the 5 speeds chain. Just my two cents. _________________ Christophe   Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:45 pm auchencrow Joined: 09 Oct 2011 Posts: 53 Location: Detroit Christophe wrote: ...Are brand new spindles of a better quality ? I 'm seriously tented by the Velo Orange french-threaded cartridge BB as a solution to these BB roblems. ... I haven't tried Velo Orange's cartridge bb, but when I purchased my winter rider, I replaced the modern cartride bb with another brand new Shimano item, then burned through it in less than one season. Admittedly this was hard service, but I have never destroyed a cup and ball bb. YMMV. _________________ Auchen   Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:55 pm Christophe Joined: 06 Nov 2010 Posts: 29 Location: France FWIW, there had been a Paris - Pekin ride a few years ago. They've had a special bicycle designed by Cyfac for this event : http://www.cyfac.fr/Pages/Products/ProductDetails.aspx?productId=15030 It was equipped with mostly Tiagra coponents. A report of mechanical problems has been published somewhere online, and they claimed they encountered no serious problem, except with the tiagra BB, some of them failing while crossing the Himalaya and so on.... Odd, as when you look at these shimano cartridge BB, the word sturdy comes to mind. Last edited by Christophe on Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:59 am; edited 1 time in total _________________ Christophe   Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:17 am Christophe Joined: 06 Nov 2010 Posts: 29 Location: France In addition to my previous post , the mechanical report, in french : http://www.parispekinavelo.com/materiel/materiel.htm In short : - 12680 km and 105 riders - no problems with shifters, cassettes, derailers, brakes, - 4 pedals have been changed, - chains changed at least once, sometimes twice, - but 70 % of BB have been damaged during the trip. _________________ Christophe   Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:49 pm verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area Christophe wrote: - but 70 % of BB have been damaged during the trip. Christophe, I have to ask, how were they damaged? Did they all fail the same way? Were they all the same model? All Shimano? I've seen/heard of a lot of problems with the new style hollow bottom brackets with the outset bearings from all makers, especially Campagnolo! My LBS (Local Bike Shop) has had to do warranty replacements on a number of the new style hollow Campy BBs. Shimano Hollowtech bottom bracket Campy UltraTorque BottomBracket Campy Power Torque crank These old style Shimano square taper BB cartridges were bullet proof, especially the UN-72 and UN-55 models with metal cups on both sides. Here's another square taper BB cartridge made by SKF the German ball bearing company. They have a 60,000 K warranty but at $124.95 USD they should. _________________ Chas. SF Bay Area, CA USA ============== 1984 Criterium 1969 TdF 1971 TdF 1974 TdF 1984 TdF x 2 Bikes 1970 SC 1971 SC 1972 SC 1984 SC 1984 Team Pro 1985 Professional 1990s Team Replica   Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:07 pm Christophe Joined: 06 Nov 2010 Posts: 29 Location: France Sorry, i can't tell more than what's written in the report : tiagra BB , the first one failed at about 5000 kms. They don't specify the type of failure . The ride occured in 2008, so you might expect these were 2008 tiagras....if you want to know more, you can always contact the organisers ( Federation Française de Cyclotourisme ) here : info@ffct.org _________________ Christophe What cranks?     gitaneusa.com Forum Index » Vintage Gitane You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours   Page 1 of 1   All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First  Select a forum Gitane USA----------------Vintage GitaneGitane RacingModern GitanePro Racing - Classics/Giro/Tour....Owner Gallery   Powered by phpBB © 2001-2004 phpBB Group Designed for Trushkin.net | Themes Database.